Christianity, Theonomy

Is Natural Law A Valid Concept

Some Christians who are opposed to a Christian theocracy governing a country like to tout natural law. Natural law was also popular among the founding fathers. I’ve been looking forward to discussing natural law with someone, and I have pasted the conversation below.

Natural law is a phrase that is found in the Bible. The way the Bible talks about it is the law that is written on our hearts. Our conscience reflects natural law, and it is the minimum standard we’ll all be held to on Judgment Day–even those who never had access to Scripture.

But thank God that everyone reading this has access to Scripture. We don’t have to wander in the dark trying to figure out what natural law is when the law is spelled out explicitly in Scripture. Natural law would have to be completely consistent with Old Testament law and any changes to the law found in the New Testament. It wouldn’t make any sense for natural law to contradict Scripture.

So, it seems to me that those who say we ought to govern by natural law but not by Scripture are setting up their own contradictions. All we have to do is point out the contradictions.

Every human being on earth lives in a theocracy. The only question is whether it will be a Christian theocracy governed by God’s law or a pagan theocracy governed by a false god. The choice seems obvious to me.

—————— ME

I don’t mean to post a long list of questions for you to answer in detail. Hopefully short answers will suffice.

1. How do we find out what natural law is?
2. Do you believe God’s law revealed in Scripture contradicts natural law?
3. If there are no contradictions, why wouldn’t we just say government ought to operate under God’s law which is most clearly revealed in Scripture?
4. Jesus said, “All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me…” (Matthew 28:18-20). Does Christ’s authority include authority over government?
5. Jesus said, “Whoever is not with me is against me” (Matthew 12:30). If our government and constitution don’t acknowledge the lordship of Christ, do you think they are for or against Christ?

When a Muslim government cuts off a thief’s hand, is that just or unjust? When a Mexican sneaks across the border, would it be acceptable for the government to shoot him? The Bible speaks on these questions and ALL other questions of civil law and justice. If you reject God’s law, all you have to go on is your opinion.

You might not like Muslims cutting of a thief’s hand, but his arbitrary opinion is just as (in)valid as your arbitrary opinion. Go to a Trump rally and ask whether we should shoot illegal Mexicans crossing the border. (I’ve heard some of them say we should.) Are you going to respond by quoting Cicero and appealing to natural law? I would quote Leviticus 19:34, and say that anyone who shoots a Mexican “illegally”crossing the border will stand before God as a murderer on Judgment Day, whether they have the blessing of Congress or not.

—————— THE NATURAL LAW MAN

1. How do we find out what natural law is? (According to Cicero in the first century B.C. “reason and rationale of one made in God’s reveals Natural Law”)
2. Do you believe God’s law revealed in Scripture contradicts natural law? Christ’s NEW Commandmant to “love one another as I have loved you” (John 13:35)? Is that the Law to which you refer? If so, then NO.
3. If there are no contradictions, why wouldn’t we just say government ought to operate under God’s law which is most clearly revealed in Scripture? Which Law, CHRIST’S LAW? If that’s the Law which you intend, then re-read the first paragraph of the post. IF YOU MEAN THE MOSAIC LAW – then the only issue you have is “remembering the Sabbath” – “lying” (which the government of the United States has never outlawed except in case of treason) and a host of other problems (what’s appropriate for the punishment of “adultery” for example – in the Mosaic Law it was stoning).
4. Jesus said, “All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me…” (Matthew 28:18-20). Does Christ’s authority include authority over government? YES. God called the evil Baybloynian Empire (“my servant”), even though Babylon had nothing to do with Yahweh.
5. Jesus said, “Whoever is not with me is against me” (Matthew 12:30). If our government and constitution don’t acknowledge the lordship of Christ, do you think they are for or against Christ? All governments, whether they ‘acknowledge Christ or not’ (America’s Founding Documents make NO MENTION of Christ) are still “God’s servants” to “punish the evil doer.”

When a Muslim government cuts off a thief’s hand, is that just or unjust? NO When a Mexican sneaks across the border, would it be acceptable for the government to shoot him? NO The Bible speaks on these questions and ALL other questions of civil law and justice. If you reject God’s law, all you have to go on is your opinion.

—————— ME

You said, “Christ’s NEW Commandment to “love one another as I have loved you” (John 13:35)? Is that the Law to which you refer? If so, then NO.”

It sounds like you think there are contradictions between the law of Christ and the law of Moses. Of course the law of Moses is given by Yahweh. Jesus is Yahweh, which is Trinitarianism 101. When Jesus said, “Love your neighbor as yourself” He was quoting Leviticus 19:18. That is hardly a new (as in the something young definition) law that Jesus was instituting.

Furthermore, I don’t think there is any contradiction between what Jesus said and the Old Testament. It’s just that some of the laws are fulfilled by Christ. We obey some of them by trusting in Christ for salvation (ceremonial), and some of them are still binding (at least the moral law).

3. You said there’s no contradiction between natural law and Christ’s law. Then you said read the first paragraph to see the problem with operating under the law of Christ. So I’m confused.

Before Christ, Cicero said, “It is a sin to try to alter this law, nor is it allowable to repeal any part of it, and it is impossible to abolish it entirely.” Yet you say there is a contradiction between Mosaic civil law and natural law. Are you saying the Mosaic civil law was unjust? Hebrews 2:2 says it is just. Or maybe natural law changed after Christ, and Cicero was just incorrect?

5. You didn’t answer the question.

When a Muslim government cuts off a thief’s hand, they’re punishing evil, right? But how do you know what the proper punishment for theft is without looking into Scripture? Scripture provides the only absolute standard of justice. Natural law and reasoning are wholly inadequate for determining the proper punishment for thieves.

You said, “America’s Founding Documents make NO MENTION of Christ”. I’d be content with the Declaration of Independence reference to the Creator (assuming they were referring to the God of the Bible; I don’t know whether they were or not). But the Constitution is antichrist and unbiblical in many ways. It has certainly not been successful in what it set out to accomplish as 55 million dead babies would attest.

Thanks for your responses.

Abolish The Police, Christianity, Theonomy

I Found a Better Rush

I grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh. I learned a lot from him. The issue I see now, is that he talks about freedom and limited government, but doesn’t call for the end of public school and Social Security, etc. He doesn’t make any mention of the Bible’s teaching on these subjects. But pastors don’t either.

R.J. Rushdoony (the better Rush) figured out what the Bible teaches on so many topics of life, and wrote tons of books. I’ve thought about some of what he’s saying here, and it’s good to know I’m not the first Christian to ever think about these things. There were probably thousands of Christians in the early church, and then Rush and then me. Here’s the quote referring  to early Christians, and their employment under Caesar:

As Christ’s servants or slaves, bought with a price, they could not voluntarily enslave themselves to men.

As a result, while Christians could be office-bearers under Caesar, they were servants of Christ alone. They could not, unlike modern office-bearers, see themselves as servants of the people, or servants of the state. They were Christ’s servants, “bought with a price.”

The early church had serious weaknesses which far surpass those of the church today, but its strength was far greater. There was a reason for this. First as Williams has pointed out, the faithful were a community, and a responsible community. Second, the early church was aware of its conflict with the world; now, there is little sense of conflict. It would not occur to a church, its officers, or its members today to raise such questions as these: Is a judge who does not challenge the humanistic law which is taking over our country faithful to Christ? Is he the servant of the people, or the state, or is he Christ’s servant? Is a union member who does not work against the humanistic and coercive tactics of the unions faithful to the Lord? Can employers and workers disregard Ephesians 6:5-9 and be counted as godly? We do not yet accept pimps and prostitutes into church membership, but can we legitimately accept antinomians who assume that a verbal profession of faith can replace a disavowal of Christ in their works?

Abolish The Police, Police Abuse, Power Trip

Good News

People say the cops are great and they’ll protect our rights. It’s the politicians that are the problem. Well, this shows how both are the problem. Obviously, the politician is a dirtbag, but the cop escorts this woman out and does the bidding of the dirtbag. He has no brain between his ears, and is unwilling to stand up for what’s right. He just does what he’s told and probably takes pleasure in shoving and manhandling the woman anyway.

But the good news is this took place in 2012 and this woman has been awarded $200,000 for this injustice.

Abolish The Police, Police Abuse, Power Trip, Theonomy

More Stupidity

Below is a post from a Christian on Facebook. I have responded to one of his post’s in the past.

copworship

This guy is essentially presenting an argument that goes like this:
1. Traffic stops are dangerous.
2. Therefore cops are entitled to treat everyone as dangerous during a traffic stop.

I deny that traffic stops are that dangerous. People are occasionally shot whether they’re cops or not. Stringing together a video of violent traffic stops and posting it on Youtube isn’t statistical evidence, though it can be persuasive. Police don’t have a dangerous job. They ranked as the fifteenth most dangerous job in 2013 between grounds maintenance workers and painters. I’ve never seen a memorial to fallen grounds crew members, but clearly, there ought to be one.

Obviously, if traffic stops aren’t that dangerous, the conclusion of his argument doesn’t work either. But, even if I were to concede that his first point is correct, the second point doesn’t necessarily follow. Maybe there are better solutions to dangerous traffic stops.

The manufacturer of my car has determined the best type of oil for the engine, and specified that in the owner’s manual. If I put in something other than what they’ve specified, I’m risking suboptimal performance, or even ruining the engine. If I put in water, I don’t know how far I’d make it down the road, but not very far.

God knows human beings even better than my manufacturer knows my engine. God defines right and wrong, just and unjust. The existence of police (at least in their current form) is illegal under God’s law. They are tantamount to putting water in an engine instead of oil. Who knows what all the bad effects will be, but cops being shot during traffic stops isn’t the only one.

But rather than my Christian friend calling for the biblical solution, he’s saying that we need to put more water in the engine–saying cops need to be tougher and more suspicious of everyone.

I don’t know this guy too well, but from what I know he is a nice guy, and a devoted Christian. But, the pulpits have failed miserably in that Christians can go on thinking like this. Who defines good and evil? Here’s a news flash: Ruth Bader Ginsburg does not define good and evil. I think American Christians are having a terrible confusion about what is good and what is evil.

Theonomy

Don’t Yank on the Chain If You Don’t Know What It’s Connected To!

This article talks about how the German people are wondering about whether the Muslims converting to Christianity are genuine.

bm

Bojidar Marinov said the following in response:

In other words, one bad idea leads to another, and all of them together lead to more statism. People ask for the government to control the movement of people (a bad idea), but then realize that this leads to injustice and cruelty to Christians in the Middle East. Then they try to mitigate this by calling for the government to stop only Muslims (another bad idea), even though they have read multiple articles explaining that Muslims have no problem parading as “Christians,” and then they see Muslims getting baptized in droves. Now, since no one is sure if these conversions are real, the next step is to get the government to decide if they are sincere or not (another bad idea). Step by step, somewhere down the road, because we have been manipulated by irrational fears, we will let the government decide for us if we really are Christians or not, and what does it take to be a Christian.